Douglas Adams Continuum (DAC)

Since Episode II is pretty much done, apart from receiving the narrator's recordings, I feel moving on to talking about Episode III could be wise.

In Episode III we have:

(At least) three parts to cast
Porter 1 - Porter 2 - the officer

And the following scenes to record:

1. Gordon and narrator / music
2. Reg's appartment - not very much. Richard/Narrator/Bignose.
3. Radio / porters / Richard
4. Narrator / Gordon

5. Richard in car / electric monk / answer machine / narrator / Gordon's "Richard" / officer
6. Richard's flat
7. Richard / Gordon's answer phone / Dirk Gently / Susan / Michael

You will notice a gap there in the lines. A possible producing strategy:

Veet does the stuff with Gordon and in Reg's apartment (as that's what he did for the previous episode) and the porters and I produce the stuff where I am the main actor, my car journey, my flat, and going to Susan's etc (strangely this is exactly half of the episode each, to the page scriptwise!)

Characters in this episode:

Gordon
Narrator
Me
Reg
Radio
Porter 1
Porter 2
Electric Monk
Officer
Dirk
Susan
Michael

(sorry if I missed any out...)

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Sounds (reads?) good.

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Well what if there is no tomorrow? There wasn't one today!

Again, I can do a small (/medium) part like one of the porters or the officer if needed.

Was in fact going to suggest that myself :-)

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Btw, we shall record ChrisB's lines before we finish term so that if (when!) we're working on episode III in the summer we already have those.

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Very good idea.

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Sir Humphrey: With Trident we could obliterate the whole of Eastern Europe.
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You can't be a successful dictator and design women's underclothing. - Bertram Wooster, The Code of the Woosters

If I may raise a concern about Episode three. Fantastic writing, but is the narrator really going to call Reg a "Frood" one of the things I liked about picking up Dirk Gently is that I had already read H2G2 so many times, that it was refreshing to read something the same quality of authorship, but not in anyway connected to H2G2. It seems a bit grating to make the entire introduction straight out of H2G2. Don't get me wrong, I fell in love with this production at first sight when I encountered it 2 weeks ago, but...


I liked the first paragraph of the intro, but this one:


I dunno.

If no one else seems to agree, I'll shut up.

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Arthur Dent: "I think we have different value systems."

Ford Prefect: "Well mine's better."

The 'frood' part must have been a mistake. All right, maybe it wasn't, but I agree that it's not exactly the mot juste.
As for that paragraph, I don't know either. You are free to re-write it the way You want. This is a democratic forum (as far as I know, really). But let us know what changes You wish to make.

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Sir Humphrey: With Trident we could obliterate the whole of Eastern Europe.
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You can't be a successful dictator and design women's underclothing. - Bertram Wooster, The Code of the Woosters

And Richard's reaction. Or something.
This is an updated version of that paragraph. I think it's far worse than the old one, but here it is, anyway. Some people might have different values than I have.

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Sir Humphrey: With Trident we could obliterate the whole of Eastern Europe.
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You can't be a successful dictator and design women's underclothing. - Bertram Wooster, The Code of the Woosters

Waux, in my opinion, as perhaps a DNA fundamentalist, or something, would call your version vastly improved. But I want to know what the rest of everyone here thinks about whether such overt references to the guide that don't make sense belong in Dirk Gently.

At least I think I'm a fundamentalist. I've read or listened (books on tape) to every book in the five part trilogy about 20 times, and read or listened to dirk gently at least 10 times each. I also own the Radio Series' the TV show, and the movie. The latter two I do not like especially. My point is, I like DNA very much, and wonder if the two series' should be mixed.

Or am I making a big deal about nothing?

Anyone?

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Arthur Dent: "I think we have different value systems."

Ford Prefect: "Well mine's better."

I see Your point, I just wanted to use as much original DNA material as I could, because I thought that there's no way I could write a narration that even remotely approaches the quality of bopAd's writing on my own, but seeing that there's a whole crew of people behind this project I think we will succeed in creating a passable tribute to DNA without actually mixing H2G2 and DG.

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Sir Humphrey: With Trident we could obliterate the whole of Eastern Europe.
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You can't be a successful dictator and design women's underclothing. - Bertram Wooster, The Code of the Woosters

I actually like the occasional reference to the guide, as an aknowlegement of something great, but I do think that too much use of large or blatent bits from the guide makes it look a bit copied. I think what we are trying to get here is something with the flavour of the guide, but something with its own story.

I would say to the occassional reference, alright, if you must, it's fine. But don't you think it would be more honoring to DNA if we didn't wholesale copy something into a story that is NOT H2G2 from the Guide?

Sorry, I won't post about this anymore.

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Arthur Dent: "I think we have different value systems."

Ford Prefect: "Well mine's better."

You are free to post whatever You want (just don't piss the Admins off...) and the point You've raised is a very valid one.

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Sir Humphrey: With Trident we could obliterate the whole of Eastern Europe.
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You can't be a successful dictator and design women's underclothing. - Bertram Wooster, The Code of the Woosters

So then, to episode III. (To episode III!)

I'm going to try to start recording my lines over Christmas, i.e. quite soon. We should probably send an updated script (with Waux's recent change) to John Collin to give him as much notice as possible. The main sections of the episode are as follows. My previous suggestion that apparantly read good was as follows:

Richard/Reg (small amount) (MDC produces)
- Richard, Reg, Douglas

Gordon/Narrator (first scene, second scene) (Veet produces)

Porter Scene (Porters, Richard, Radio) (Veet produces? Or me. Or other.)

Richard’s car scene (Richard, Susan, Monk, Narrator, Gordon, Officer) (MDC produces)

Richard’s flat (Richard/Narrator) (MDC produces)

Dirk’s flat / breaking into Susan’s flat / Richard/Susan (Dirk, Richard, Susan, Michael, Narrator) (MDC produces)


Note that these aren't rigid, and by all means if somebody else wants to produce some section of it than they're more than welcome to. Fleppo did the first scene in Episode I - does he want to do the last scene in episode III also, from when Dirk enters? Perhaps we could PM him. Otherwise, I'd be happy to do it. Another potential scene that might be suitable for "somebody else having a go" if they wanted to would be the porter scene (especially if one or both porters were played by somebody who wants to have a go.) Does Kai want to audition for one of the porters? Also I gathered that Will Sax sent something in for one of the porters, although I can't seem to find this so haven't heard anything.

Alternatively, w.r.t the porter's, we've had quite a few emails just of general audition people. We could gather a mailing list of people who have sent something in, and send an email out to them mentioning the parts of the porters are available to get somebody new to do it (or the police officer, or both.) We should get together a mailing list of all of the people who have sent stuff in but currently don't have parts, so we can send a group email to all of them whenever we need a new character.

I'm especially looking forward to doing the scene when Richard's driving, that seems quite a rich scene :-)

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See a pin; pick it up; and all that day, you'll have a pin.

On another note, w.r.t the change in the script, I'm not sure whether I prefer the new one or the old one - the old one certainly read very smoothly (and I think would sound very smooth.) However, of the new one updated above can I suggest a few changes - "a tad bit less wonderful" and so in didn't seem to read so well - how about

"But Saint Cedd's, where Dirk's old schoolmate Richard MacDuff is spending a less wonderful night, is not a pizza-hut. It does not have striplings wearing baseball caps standing behind tills looking perplexed after every order, nor does it bear any other characteristic of a pizza-hut – but it does have erratic poetry, bizarre dons and oddish horses in the unwonted bathrooms of said dons.

The first thing that springs to those people's minds who meet Richard MacDuff is 'Hmmm, tall.'

The first thing that springs to the lips of those who see a horse in a college bathroom is..."

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I seem to recal recording an audition for one of the porters actually which I never got round to sending (or was it the officer?). I'll see if I can dig it out.

Edit: Hmmm, could only find an audition for the officer (which I've sent in anyway - (can't remember if he's been cast yet or not).).
I've recorded and sent in an audition for it (playing both porters in different voices (which I could do differently if someone has a strong opinion of how they should sound)). I wasn't sure what the accents were that they were talking about, but I'd find out if needed.

As I recall I did audition but not for either of the porters it was the officer. I still have his lines and can resend them if need be.

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Life... is like a grapefruit. It's orange and squishy, and has a few pips in it, and some folks have half a one for breakfast.

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=2EB9F3E02C5F1670

Updated script. I took a couple of lines out completely, but the narration and Gordon's lines are a tad bit too long and boring sometimes. I also added a couple of new bits, they are, needless to say, in red.
I'd love to hear Your views, ideas, etc. The usual thing.

EDIT: NOTE: I didn't change that many bits, no, only very few lines or dialogues.

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Sir Humphrey: With Trident we could obliterate the whole of Eastern Europe.
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You can't be a successful dictator and design women's underclothing. - Bertram Wooster, The Code of the Woosters

(Whoops, I've just noticed two grammatical and a spelling mistake... )

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Sir Humphrey: With Trident we could obliterate the whole of Eastern Europe.
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You can't be a successful dictator and design women's underclothing. - Bertram Wooster, The Code of the Woosters

I encourage everyone to read the script and feel free to make public comments/debate. If noone responds to your comments on the thread and you still want your suggestions to be considered/discussed then please email your comments again to Dirk_Gently_Radio@yahoo.co.uk (I hope thats right!). Please put "Episode 3 Script Suggestions" or similar in the title bar.

I will see to it that any suggestions about any part of the production sent there are given to the correct people to be considered and debated and replied to.

Thanks Waux (and James)

I look forward to reading through it in detail. While final script details are sorted we can organise who's recording what, who's playing the porters etc. I'm now finished for Christmas so soon I should be able to think about that in more detail.

Let's go then with Episode III :-)

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See a pin; pick it up; and all that day, you'll have a pin.

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/dchurchill/Porters.mp3

At the above link can be found an initial kazizzle at the Porters scene, using Kai's auditions sent to the yahoo account.

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See a pin; pick it up; and all that day, you'll have a pin.

No comments on the script so far? I'm surprised!

So, we've got the first bit of EpIII! Although, it's still just a kazizzle, but we've got time.

EDIT: Second porter's voice reminds me of Paul Whitehouse's!

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Sir Humphrey: With Trident we could obliterate the whole of Eastern Europe.
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You can't be a successful dictator and design women's underclothing. - Bertram Wooster, The Code of the Woosters

If only everyone was as eager as you Waux!

Ive just read through the script. It contains its usual high level of writing talent but its a little bit under-structured for me. But of course it's my job to do some structuring and editing which i well set about doing in the coming couple of weeks. (Lets hope i get plenty of help with people commenting on here )

There is a website that might be useful to you:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/writersroom/writing/tips_radiodrama_general.shtml

Also, there are a queue of people who want to play some part and even some of them have sent porter's auditions so it would be nice to see someone else get the chance to play one of the porters. I'll try to get that organised for people to listen to and we can cast.

I am happy You thought it 'high level of writing', but I maximally agree about the under-structuredness. It's too effusive and discursive. Effusive - especially when it comes to Gordon. If anyone has any idea, how to preserve as much of the original narration as it is humanly possible and keep it fluent at the same time, post it! But if You people think that simply excluding a couple of lines is fine as well, then let's do that.
As for disjointedness: if the order of the scenes seems too illogical for someone, make a remark about it!

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Sir Humphrey: With Trident we could obliterate the whole of Eastern Europe.
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You can't be a successful dictator and design women's underclothing. - Bertram Wooster, The Code of the Woosters

Without talking about specifics i feel that its actually the narrator who has some unneccesary lines. One of the main things any script has to think about is not giving the audience too much superfluous information (some is nice in keeping with Adams' style of course - the best of which is something that becomes relevant later). Also, on the topic of Narration i think our narrator slightly lacks a personality.

On the writing tips website posted above it tells how a narrator should have a 'reason' for being there and an 'attitude'. I think John Collin does reasonably well in giving the narrator some sort of tone/personality but I actually feel the script could be enhanced to give the narrator some 'character' (the narrator in HHGTTG is the book for example).

I have let a couple non or only semi-Adams fans listen and their main complaint was confusion. I think we need slightly improved plot arcs. However i admit many things contribute to this problem, not just the structure of the script - we may not be able to produce such a piece, and we may indeed wish to go for more of a fan tribute especially for fans.

The other complaint (which also caused added to the confusion) was that performers were sometimes not clear and especially talked too fast. This is the number 1 most common mistake made by amateur and even professional actors and public speakers for example. I did mention this before after ep1 but my comments got lost or were never seen by the actors in ep2. (The speed of the narrator by John Collin is an example of a GOOD tempo, to be perfectly blunt i dont think any other major performer in ep2 got it perfect)

I personally absolutely loved and laughed my head off at Gordon's performance, it was really finely acted, especially in terms of comic value. However I couldnt argue when someone i made listen to it said they couldnt always follow him, he spoke too fast.

Im afraid he did speak too fast, and the less you know of the books the less you'll be able to follow it all the way we've made it so far.

I hate to be negative in any way about a project that is in the main very very impressive.

Its true that it could be a bit confusing to semi and non adams fans, and we should try to keep that to a minimum to keep a wide audience (as it were), but to be fair the book can be quite confusing too. There are parts that I had to read a couple of times to make sence of, so I don't think we should worry about that too much, as long as we have all the relevent parts of the story.

Im sorry Skutterz, but citing the fact that book is confusing and that you re-read some parts to make sense of it is no excuse for not making sure what we do is coherent. This is a different format, this is not a book.

I agree we have to have the relevant parts of the story but we also need to judge what parts could be deemed irrelevant.

I'm not excusing the fact; I'm just saying that there is only a certain amount we can do to make the story clear, since it is a fairly complex story anyway. Things aren't meant to be clear until later in the story, and to make it clear what exactly is happening this early on will spoil the ending.

(Just to clarify - I'm talking about the story here, not the quality of recordings)

All I'm saying is that as you said, we need to get a balance between producing a story anyone can understand and making a tribute especially for the fans. I think we will loose too much of the story (and the Adamsyness) if we focus too much on making sure every member of the public can understand 100 percent of it.

Also, (and I think this is quite important) if we keep worrying about getting it absolutely perfect for everyone, we'll never finish the project. Its moving slowly as it is (which is understandable), but if we're constantly going back and changing things to perfect it, we'll never get it finished, which would be a big shame.


Oh, and happy new year everybody!

I agree here completely, especially about the last point.

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I for one am really not comfortable with making what i feel are correctable mistakes because we want to get it done quicker. I do recognise the need for comprimise and in with that in mind I dont think we need to go back over previous epsides as such. However I also dont assume to have final say in such matters.

This project is always going to move extremely slowly and I would call for everyone to be very patient. On this note I urge anyone (ANYONE) reading this who has the free time and the inclination to attempt to take on a more directorial role to do so. In the past ive seen myself, Veet and dip all taking good amounts of organisational control at various times and anyone else who wants to start organising and dishing out instructions should definately feel free to do so.

I am currently working on the website and the episode 3 script, but realistically this will take at least a couple of weeks.

So that we dont lose the point of all this discussion I just want to re-iterate. Clearer plot + giving the narrator a 'character' akin to H2G2's narrator are my strong suggestions and the things I have in mind as i personally look at the ep3 script (+ beyond). (Also note that the H2G2 radio show plot changes very significantly from the books for the same reason im suggesting we need to consider plot changes/editing).

On both points:

Making things clearer and easier to understand
Giving the narrator a character

I think it would just be simpler, quicker and easier to follow the book and not try to change things up.

I can elaborate as to why I'm suggesting this but I wont right now. If someone wants I will.

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Life... is like a grapefruit. It's orange and squishy, and has a few pips in it, and some folks have half a one for breakfast.

Please elaborate. Ive been begging for such input! Im trying to write a plan for future episodes so we have an overview of the entire adapted story to work with.

This is an adaptation for Radio and as such NEEDS to be adapted. Im aware that in H2G2 the narrator as the book was already in place but in this story there is no such ready made narrator. My research on the subject is that having a non-entity as the narrator is a mistake (that leads to disinterest and confusion in the listeners, (something which i have seen first hand)) - see the bbc guide i posted links to.

I definately dont want to change the story but it needs edited and ever so slightly ameneded. Something that Waux is doing an almost perfect job with already.

Everyone has valid points and issues with how things are and how they might be changed. I just want to make that clear. However, back to what I originally said: It would just be simpler, quicker and easier if we just followed the book and kept plugging along at this.

Is the story confusing?



Yes, it is confusing. The story's confusedness is to make example of the inter-connectedness of all things, the principle on which the title business is run. Its part of the point.



Yes, but... just because the story is confusing doesn't mean that it isn't coherent. This is, of course, assuming that we follow the book as it is written. Because as I just said, the book is coherent even if it is confusing. And it is indeed imperative that we have all the relevant parts of the story and not those that are irrelevant. We must cut out those which are not relevant, for time's sake and production's sake.



Again, my point. Its supposed to be confusing until the end. I feel certain that anyone can, as you put it, 'understand' the story. It is just that no one is meant to, until its over.

We must realize that we are talking about two different things here. Jamie, as director, is worried about production quality of the actual episodes. The reader, or listener in this case, must be able to follow what is going on even if it is terribly unclear as to why what is going on is going on. Skutters is saying that the story is unclear and it needs to be cleaned up so the listener can understand whats going on yet not reveal too much or the story becomes pointless.

I believe that trying to change the story is not a good idea. As I said, the story is just fine. One of the best writers I've ever encountered wrote it (I'm sure we all agree :). There is nothing that particularly needs improvement. All we need to do is take what Douglas Adams wrote and transfer it into a radio drama script. (Easier said than done, I know. But my point is...) We don't need to try and rewrite the book. Dirk Gently is good enough without our help.



Not rewriting the book includes not adding characters, even if the character to be added is technically a 'character' already. The site from the BBC about radio drama's is very enlightening and, I'm sure, helpful. However, the tips it gives about narrators are from the point of view that the script is not yet written. In our case, unfortunately, the script is written. Again, that is assuming that we follow the book as it is. Part of H2G2's success in this area, I'm sure, is that it was first a radio drama then a book. We, unfortunately, are doing the opposite.

I have been though the idea that the H2G2 story changes every time the format changes, its tradition it seems. But something we must remember is that Dirk Gently and his universe were intended to be completely separate and unrelated to Hitchhiker's Guide.



What Jamie said is a good way to put it. The project is an adaptation and the story must be adapted to fit into radio's mold, but it must not be rewritten. The problem with the narrator is a problem, but one that I don't think we are equipped to deal with. One of the many problems of adapting for radio I'm afraid.

My fear is that if we stop adapting the story and start rewriting it we will either: First, make the plot more complicated and ultimately incoherent. The listener who has heard and understood the whole radio drama still has no idea what just happened. Or second, make it so clear that the story is pointless. In other words, the listener got the whole story in the beginning and didn't need to listen to the rest to know what happened.

And that's just the big picture. If we end up rewriting the story, it will probably be that we'll need to rewrite, rerecord and re-edit together at least some or all of the first two episodes. In order that the first two episodes be coherent with the rest of the story, which we've rewritten.

So, it would be simpler, quicker and easier to just continue on as we have done. And what we have done, might I say, has been pretty damn (pardon my French) good for a bunch of amateurs communicating solely through this one forum and occasional email.

Disclaimer:

All that I have said has been elaboration as requested. Please do not take it as necessarily true or as coming from any kind of authority. Also, please do not take it a debasement of any person, his/her thoughts, opinions or ideas. It was not meant to be degrading or inflammatory in anyway. Simply the situation as I see it.

If you have questions or comments of any nature, by all means, voice them. If you don't wish to do so publicly, by all means, PM me.

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Life... is like a grapefruit. It's orange and squishy, and has a few pips in it, and some folks have half a one for breakfast.

I've read the books multiple times and I found the two episodes so far to be very confusing and hard to stay alert for.. It's done well, really amazingly well, almost mind-bogglingly well. But it's easy to zone out of, and it really does seem more confusing than even the book was.... Oh, and even I didn't get the end of the book, or how that solved it all.

Having been quiet regarding this latest conversation I'd just like to announce that WillSax has expressed all my opinions exactly, ie. I agree with him all the way on every point.

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Well what if there is no tomorrow? There wasn't one today!

What Jamie said is a good way to put it. The project is an adaptation and the story must be adapted to fit into radio's mold, but it must not be rewritten. The problem with the narrator is a problem, but one that I don't think we are equipped to deal with. One of the many problems of adapting for radio I'm afraid.

This is the most revealing thing you say. I agree that we might not be equipped. Im perfectly happy to acknowledge that if it turns out to be the case.

My fear is that if we stop adapting the story and start rewriting it we will either: First, make the plot more complicated and ultimately incoherent. The listener who has heard and understood the whole radio drama still has no idea what just happened. Or second, make it so clear that the story is pointless. In other words, the listener got the whole story in the beginning and didn't need to listen to the rest to know what happened.

And that's just the big picture. If we end up rewriting the story, it will probably be that we'll need to rewrite, rerecord and re-edit together at least some or all of the first two episodes. In order that the first two episodes be coherent with the rest of the story, which we've rewritten.

Noone is suggesting a rewrite. I hope this is clear by the end of this post. Re-arrangement not a re-write. Anything that I said that alluded to a re-write were poorly communicated by me. See above.

So, it would be simpler, quicker and easier to just continue on as we have done.

As we have done in the past hasnt been all roses. It has taken us the best chunk of 1 year per episode for example


And what we have done, might I say, has been pretty damn (pardon my French) good for a bunch of amateurs communicating solely through this one forum and occasional email.

Absolutely Agreed.

I am not even going to begin to try to quote Jamie quoting me quoting other people so I'll start fresh.

Two things stick in my mind, and then I'll be done.

It has been made absolutely and astoundingly clear that no one, in fact, wants to rewrite or change the material. This is what I was afraid discussions were leading to. I wanted to stop it before it got to actually changing the story, which we dont want to do. So everything is good there.

Jamie cited examples of editing, namely the Dirk Gently scene in the very beginning of the first episode. That was great, I really liked it. I considered that and other things like it to be part of adaptation that I went on about. When I said, "follow the book as it is written," I didnt necessarily mean in the order that its events happen, I meant follow the book without changing whats in it.

I really like the first two episodes, there is nothing wrong with them as far as I can tell. I spent all that time yesterday to basically say that we all had the right idea from the beginning and we should just keep doing it.

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Life... is like a grapefruit. It's orange and squishy, and has a few pips in it, and some folks have half a one for breakfast.

Dont get me wrong Will, I really liked episode 2 especially. I was gutted when I got completely other reactions from it.

Tweaks are what we need. Thanks for your input - this kind of debate is what really helps give this project some clear direction.

Actually, that was quite the opposite of what I was saying. I was saying that it is supposed to be confusing, and when we get to the last episode (which we will eventually) the story will become clearer then (Willsax pretty much summed up what I was trying to say).

Basically, I think we should carry on with how it’s going at the moment. I think Waux is doing a great job of adapting it, and we should concentrate on recording and putting together, rather than changing how it’s done. Carrying on as we have been includes rearranging the story as we see fit (as was done with the first scene), but I think we should sort things like that out as an when they're relevant.

I also think we are going to get mixed reactions. I have only shown it to one person, but the reaction to that was positive.

Guys, whats all this 'get on with it the way we were?'

Before some people misunderstood the extent of changes that were being suggested this thread was not disimilar to discussions we had to have when we were having when we first made episode 1.

If what people are really trying to say is leave the narrator as a non-entity then my response to that is: opinions noted and that as a result the narrator will likely stay as it is.

On the other hand Ive recently been working on what I did in previous episodes which was i think officially described as editor and these are some of the issues that im having with editing this episode (an example of my editing work so far was indeed introducing that scene which put dirk gently in the first episode). Im on the quest for more of the same and i was just trying to get some help on that.

We're turning into a boardroom a little and we've forgotten the actual material. So, line drawn, if anyone has any suggestions about the material in episode 3 id be delighted to hear from them.